Arcane vs Fire vs FFB

[Serrath]

Hello mage types. I wanted to pose a question for the guild mages rather than resorting to elitistjerks and a few other theorycrafting sites I tend to browse...

... when it comes to current "end game" which do you find most effective. I'm looking to make Zehlda a little more frequent now that she's properly geared and can actually bust out some killer single target and multi-target dps.

I think what I'm looking for is pros/cons to each build. I've seen mages swear by all three (and to be honest I wish Frost was in there too :p). Arcane is amazing for single target bursting when you have plenty of mana to do so. I like fire for its great single target and living bomb capacities... that and things BURN. My only complaint with fire is its very RNG dependent with your crit. Come raid time my fireball sits near 80% crit but I can still have streaks where I don't crit for four or five spells and it definitely affects my dps (which is supplemented largely by Pyroblast).

The only spec I really haven't played much with is FFB. To be quite honest I'm a little ignorant when it comes to the build ... from many comps I've seen it's much like fire except you spent the rest of your points in Frost instead of Arcane. Where-in lies the dps boost? Dropping the crit/mana/hit that the arcane tree provides to pick up Icy Veins? Is there more to it? When you started Anub you insisted on FFB but to be honest I've only ever seen Para be FFB... what's the thought on the other schools?

Mage discussion go.

[Magical Trevor]

I'll swing the first shovel here...

Frostfire's power comes from having a main nuke with 5% more crit chance (glyphed) baked in, plus higher crits on average, than Fireball, plus icy veins. icy veins is probably the single most powerful talent point in the entire mage arsenal. Also, you never run out of mana. It suffers when you have to move around a lot; it's the least mobile end game spec. Bursty and Tank/spanky, it's awesome against Vezax and Mimiron. Like Fireball spec, it also features improved scorch for raid utility.

Fireball/TotW spec is great for 25 man raids but falls behind in smaller settings because it's the most raid-makeup-dependent of the three. It's not optimized without a boomkin, a death knight and another mage to focus magic and spam scorches. It has good mobility and dpm, and the furthest range. It owns face in several fights, like Mimeron, Northrend Beasts and XT. It's my usual raid spec, fwiw. I tend to use it because I have a LOT of +hit native to my raid gear, so it's hard for me to justify 3 points in precision, which is the best talent on the way to icy veins. Plus, I'm bad.

Arcane is probably the highest dps spec for most fights in ToC -- at least the ones with 1-2 targets. It's dependent on having replenishment (preferably a ret pally judging wisdom) and a tank that doesn't let Torment of the Weak fall off. It's the most mobile spec, though you're leashed to 36 yards. It's also, imo, the hardest to play right; it requires careful rotation and mana management if the fight goes beyond 4 minutes. It also suffers in AoE, though it does allow a mage to spec a point into improved blizzard without missing much of a step. It's fantastic for Yogg, Faction Champions, Hodir and Jaraxxus, not to mention that in the right hands an arcane mage can mop the floor with the Valkyr twins.

[Para]

what trevor said... cept i prefer fire for yogg, just cz its such a long fight and if you have baddies in the raid you cant really afford to evocate in p3.

Gilneas is a really good arcane mage and I feel like arcane is the best for end game progression ATM, but for Anub FFB is the best. That's the reason why you see me walking around with a FFB spec because i'm too lazy to respec. FFB gives you the opportunity to blizzard with icy veins, bursting our recount dps up to 10k+ at certain points of the fight, and this allows us to quickly AOE down the adds. For Anub, FFB is best, the rest I feel like arcane is the most effective way to get TOGC bosses down.

I think it's just how this place was designed. Ulduar, fire raped. TOGC arcane rapes. Anub just a different story.

I just struggle with arcane sometimes because I haven't played it much, but I notice it's all about cooldown management for icy veins and arcane power, and watching your mana. But its pretty easy to get the hang of fights and figure out a solid rotation.

Hope that helps

[corca]

ZOMG new PvE frost build in 3.3!

[DamnNoHtml]

My mana-efficency strat in Arcane revolves around slamming my "/w Banidan INNERVATE ME OH GOD" macro. :\.

@ Corca: I doubt the Water Elemental will make Frost viable for PVE but we'll see.

[Serrath]

To be honest if they made frost a viable PvE spec I would do it. Not sure why but I really like frost.

I've messed around with arcane and it's just omg mana and annoying. I get annoyed because the AM proc seems to go off half a second after I finish my spell so I'm already casting the next spell in the rotation ... and it always seems to proc after I do an arcane barrage on a three stack. I got annoyed by it so I just went fire and sucked up a bit of single-target dps loss.

If I were to try any other build I think I'd give FFB a spin. It lines up pretty well with my gearing choices (crit heavy) and would require the least mix up. Think I'll give it a try in the next raid just to see how it handles compared to my usual Fire/TotW. I am interested to see Icy Veins at work vs. TotW.

[Colethor]

Some things and rules I go by when playing as arcane, some might be a little WoW 101 but just trying to shed some light on the topic.

-Stack 4 arcane blast and hope you get an arcane missile proc, if you don’t get the proc and feel comfortable with your mana, throw another arcane blast on it. You have a 40% chance of getting the proc, plus you can proc Clearcasting which will make your next cast mana free, so cast another arcane blast. In fact if on your 4th arcane blast you proc Clearcasting you always want to cast another arcane blast. The damage buff from the stacks and the additional crit chance will make that arcane blast significantly more powerful then 0 stacked arcane blast and at no mana cost there’s no reason not to.

-Using presence of mind can be tricky since they fixed it along time ago that you can’t AP/POM . I tend to always use it after 4 arcane blast, this way even though its going to cost me a lot of mana, its best to have the 4 stack buff plus POM increases that spells crit chance. Other then that on AOE packs I tend to start with a POM Flamestrike to get the dot ticking and then blizzard.

-Evocating can be risky as an arcane mage because the spec is so mana intensive you have to be able to pre plan when to evocate. You want to do it at a point when you know nothing will hit you, the best way to do this is to know the fight that’s really all. And don’t let Evocation be your last chance at getting mana back, be ready with a mana pot or gem since evocation channels and can be a waste if done at the wrong time. Also it’s not a bad idea to try and time your evocation at the end of a blood lust (8-6sec or less left) once your 20 sec cooldowns are gone. Using Arcane Power + Icy Veins + Bloodlust +Potion of Speed + haste trinket can leave you starving for mana and the haste from lust can speed up your evocation leaving you with less time channeling and more time to dips.

-If your at the end of a fight and you have a lot of mana remaining and know the boss is going to go down with you having ample mana keep arcane blast spamming there’s no need to end an encounter with 40% mana as an arcane mage. Damage verse Mana is not an issue when you have reserves and the boss is at 10%.

-Noticed you had Fetish of Volatile Power, it’s a really good trinket to use once you have 4 stacks of arcane blast and an arcane missile proc ready to go. Popping it and then using arcane missile will give you 5 stacks of haste in about 2 seconds.

Some stuff to look into about 3.3
-Fire mages no longer need to stack Scorch 5 times, 1 scorch =5% crit
-Arcane mages fully speced into Arcane Empowerment will give the raid 3% increased damage shared with Ferocious Inspiration and Sanctified Retribution. Also imo the tier 10 bonuses seem to favor arcane a little more then fire.
-Frost PVE is still in 4th place from what I have read, about 500-800 dps off of the next best spec. But I haven’t played it on the PTR.

[expendable]

i know this was posted about a month ago but i figure i would chime in how i think about playing a mage. its very simple really. 1 target = arcane spec, aoe fights as well as trash mobs(heroic or raid) FFB for aoe, because blizzard does most dmg as ffb with living bombs mixed in. fire spec imo is a dead spec because u can do more single tar dmg as arcane and more aoe dmg as ffb, and those are the only 2 ways u fight, aoe or single tar, name a third way and dazzle my mind. copy my spec in game right now as of 1/04/10 and u will see that are both arcane and FFB, one for trash mobs and one for bosses, i switch specs constantly while raiding. the only downfall with FFB aoe is if there are TOO MANY targets. FFB aoe is a tricky game if your spend all your time putting living bombs up and not blizzard then its actually less dps, BUT you can do a fun trick which is putting living bombs up on 10-12 targets then picking one mob and pyroblasting it 10 times in a row, thats shit is fun i dont care who you are. Since this post is after 3.3 i can say frost pve spec is OK, its viable not THE BEST. i can do about 6-7k as frost single tar as to 9-10 k with arcane. it was cool until they fixed the fingers of frost bug, i raided as frost the tuesday 3.3 came out and i noticed if u got a fingers of frost you could exploit it into 3 crist not just 2. you would do two frostbolts and right after the second one you could spam deep freeze before the 2nd frostbolt landed and it would work. then like 4 days later in that little patch they implemented if you remeber they fixed it making fingers of frost get comsumed as soon as the spell left your fingers not when it landed on your target. so since they fixed it, they made it worse.

here is how i use my specs

FFB = all trash in the game and 25 anub heroic (5 living bombs then blizzard is the magic number for aoe) so basically 5 is the magic number of living bombs then start blizzard in ANY aoe situation.

Frost= if you don't want too pay attention to a rotation by all means go frost, you have a 30 sec cd that is your second spell (deep freeze) other then that spam frostbolt.

Arcane= spam arcane blast until you have missles but keep an eye on your mana, if you want to be careless and spam arcane blast make sure you have evocate ready, or it has like 30 seconds left then spam away. but some fights i can spam arcane blast till im oom then i hit missles (so i dont waste the 4 stacks) then evocate then spam again. for instance in voa with our main raid i can spam arcane blast and he will die b4 im oom gilneas and myslef were at like 11k on week it was funny, but if im in a pug with shity dps i cant do that gotta conserve and span out my mana.


BOTTOM LINE= so dps is all SITUATIONAL you have to adapt for what the situation calls for.

[expendable]

i take back what i said about fire bieng a dead spec, it is still very much alive :P.